Today's guest is the lovely Lucy Snell, the co-founder of Cherry Consulting.Cherry helps creative and digital agencies to generate new business and Lucy started the company in 2004.She's been featured three times in the BD100 list as one of the UK's most influential business developers and during this interview shares many tips for agencies who are looking to generate more leads.In this episode, she shares:* Some of the biggest challenges she's seeing agencies have for approaching prospects right now* Tips for how to get cut through when prospective clients aren't responding* What she did to get a 50% open rate on one of her email campaigns* What she finds agencies need the most help with in the area of new business generation* Her thoughts on why some agencies are thriving at the moment* Exactly what she believes you should be spending your time on, in the area of new business, depending on the size of your agency.If you're working in agency new business or have aspirations to do so, this is a great interview and full of practical real life examples and advice.Enjoy! Transcript:Jenny: Welcome to Episode 10. This episode is relevant for you if you are generating new business for your agency. So if you're responsible for agency prospecting and finding new clients, then I think you're going to find this one valuable. I'm interviewing Lucy Snell, who is the co-founder of a new business consultancy called Cherry. And they help agencies with new business generation and prospecting. And today she has shared so many tips and so many great ideas that cover things like the biggest challenges she's seeing right now for prospecting, because we're in the situation of Covid still. Some tips for how to get cut through. What she did to get a 50% open rate on one of her emails. Her observations for why some agencies are thriving now with their new business prospecting during COVID. And some of the biggest push backs she's hearing from CMOS and marketing directors and some advice for how to handle them. She's also going to share her top three things she advises agencies to be spending their time on, depending on how big you are as an agency. So she's really generous with her detail and her examples. And I really hope that you enjoy this episode. So we’ll go over now.So, Lucy, I'm really thrilled to have you on the show today. Lucy is the co-founder of a new business consultancy called Cherry. And she started in 2004. And Cherry helps creative and digital agencies tell their story and win more business. And the reason I'm delighted to speak to Lucy is because she's very much in the same space as me consulting with creative agencies. So really looking forward to diving in asking more questions about your experiences. But I was impressed to see that you were featured for two years running on the BD 100 list, which is the UK is most influential business developers. And the other thing about charity, which I noticed is that you not only help agencies with the strategy of new business, but you also provide the in-house resourcing. So you actually help them execute on the strategy. So Lucy, would you mind giving a couple of minutes about you, your background and your experience?Lucy: Yeah, that's why I think that's the difference with us? Well, you know, at Cherry is that we believe in that the execution of new business needs to be strategic. So, yes, we help with all the new business strategy in terms of messaging and positioning and how agencies should approach brands. But we also do it for you. So in the past, we used to actually go work in-house at, you know, physically at agency offices, we kind of stopped doing that pre Covid, to be honest, just because both myself and my business partner are based out of London and commuting every day to London to do that was just not so feasible. So we do it remotely. But we want to be an extension of the agency team. We work really closely with agency CEOs and founders, or we can work closely with their in house team as a kind of bolt-on if they've got an in house team. Again, we set up Cherry back in 2004. We've been going 17 years, nearly 17 years now. And yes, still going strong. We're a small team intentionally, we want to be a small team, because we just want to rather than manage people, I just want to do any business and do the stuff I love doing which is working with agencies. So yeah, we help agencies on all areas in your business, whether it's, you know, the strategy or the doing, or training and coaching them on how to do any business effectively. And yeah, it's great to get nominated for BD100. It's actually I've just found out I am in the list for the third year running. I think they've got a shortlist. I don't know if they I think they've got an awards day soon coming up. Well, it's virtual. So to see who wins that I don't know how they work that out that process. But yeah, it's good to be in that list.Jenny: Amazing, really well done massive achievement. And I was gonna say you said that prior to Covid you were going into offices, agencies to help them. Have you noticed that doing new business remotely, what have you seen as the change that's happened as a result of moving to a remote model in terms of new business?Lucy: Well, I don't see it massively in terms of me working from home. I mean, I was actually doing that pretty Covid quite a lot anyway. But in terms of everyone else, working from home it’s real struggle. So you know, when we're approaching corporates, like big companies, particularly who have all of their workforce and marketing teams working from home, they haven't seen to have been able to set up their phone system to transfer calls. So it's a real struggle in terms of of getting hold of people. And that is hampering and affecting the business at the moment where it means we're having to rely so much on email, to be able to get through to people. And you know, there's a lot of noise out there, there's a lot of emails going into people's inboxes. And it's so easy to swipe and delete. So we're having to kind of think up different ways to get in front of somebody. And again, as well, you know, I'm a massive fan of postal campaigns, handwritten postcards, and stuff like that. But again, I haven't done any of those since lockdown, you know, lockdown 1.0, because I just don't know how they would reach the end person, or how long it would take to reach the end person. So relying massively on emails, but there's more creative ways that we can be approaching companies and approaching prospects, whether it's using the video function on LinkedIn Messenger, or there's a great platform called Bonjoro where you can send really quick kind of face to camera, video messages. So it could be you know, trying to reach on the phone, obviously, it's really impossible these days, but can we have a call type thing? But yeah, that's, I think that's the biggest thing. For me working from home is what I love doing, I can just kind of get into my zone, and without the interruption, so I don't mind working remotely. But I think for others, and for some of my clients that I work with, I think that they find it a real struggle, particularly for those kind of creative brains that need that. And you know, the inspiration that you get from just going around your daily business and commuting to work and seeing stuff you were missing out on that.Jenny: And I love that you've mentioned Bonjoro and video messaging because I'm a massive believer that, you know, in the absence of being there, physically, I think it's the next best thing. You know, if you send a personalised message on video, I think it's really effective. So, for a couple of questions on that, have you noticed that there's been any resistance to doing that from the part of the agencies? And also, are you finding that it's having a lot more cut through than email?Lucy: Yeah, I mean, I think most people are resistant to being on video. You know, it's not natural is it especially when you're shooting from home and you're kind of having to just be all energetic, just your your screen, it is really hard. But I think for me, I used Bonjoro a lot back in September, I ran like a freemium business boot camp for over 150 agencies. And as part of that, I wanted to show them what they could be doing to create a really engaging live experience. So I did 200 no, I think I had 200 people because I did 200 videos in total. So I did 200 personal messages. And you know, you don't have time when you're doing that many to worry about how you look or how you come across or edit or do retakes. It was just a really quick, I mean, a lot of them I did whilst I was in my car in the rain waiting for my son to come out of school. It was is the perfect time, quick video. Hi, how are you? This is what I did looking forward to getting to know you boom, and send it over. And it got really good results. I mean, I probably should look up the stats, but you know, well over 50% open rates, and people responding. So it is really important. And I know that people are resistant to video, but the more you you know, we hear this on like platforms like LinkedIn and Facebook, video is what people want to see. There's so many tools that you can use to make it really easy like Bonjoro or there's like other ones that Veed where they can put captions on. So there's no excuse really to not do it. And guess the first ones you do, you'll probably hate. I mean, I hate all of mine, especially when people you know say, Oh, yeah, I saw your video. I'm like, oh, man, oh please. My husband always wants to look at my videos. No, no, no, just I don't want you to see it.Jenny: It does work, I can see that it would do. So just a quick sort of question. If you're doing the execution of the new business for an agency, do you have yourself on video representing the agency? Or do you coach the team and how to do it? And then they execute on it?Lucy: Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, it's early days, and we haven't done a video campaign where I've coached the team to do it. I mean, that's when I am working with agencies and giving them advice on how they should do new business. I say definitely use video. But I do it myself. Because when I work with agencies, I'm a member of their team. So I adapt my LinkedIn profile and working, you know, as one of their team members or myself. Yeah, brilliant. You mentioned in the introduction, that you also help agencies with positioning, I'd love to sort of just drill down a little bit on that and just ask you, how important do you think a differentiated position is? And when you start working with agencies, do you find that generally they come to you with a positioning that really isn't differentiated? I'd love to hear your views on this. Yeah, I mean, I think that having a differentiated positioning is really hard. You know, to try and make yourself different from another agency is tricky, but I think it's less about being differentiated. And for me, it's much more about being clear. And so many agencies just don't have a clear proposition. You go on their website, and you don't really understand what it is that they do and everybody has very short attention spans. And when you go onto an agency website as a potential marketing client, you need to be able to quickly seeLucy: Right, who is it that they work for? Like, as in his ideal target audience? Is that me? What kind of problems can you solve? Can you solve my problem and some proof points. And I think that's where a lot of agency positionings go wrong, because they're too outlandish or too creative. And it's not very clear. Whereas people should be able to really understand, okay, you’re digital marketing agency, you work with it with travel companies, for example. And then Yes, that's me. No, that's not me. Because if it's too confusing, people will just bounce off your website, or they won't read your email. And so they won't engage with your conversations.Jenny: And hopefully, you're not a digital agency in the travel space, because they’ve been massively hit. But that was an interesting point, actually. Because with positioning, and that's not my forte, I don't do a lot of positioning projects or anything. But do you believe that it makes sense for an agency to try to be more industry specific, like that vertical positioning.Lucy: You know, I definitely can help to be clear on, you know, we hear that word niche a lot coming from the States. But I think it can be helpful when you're running new business campaigns, it does mean that you can be in a very risky situation. For example, if you do specialise in travel, or hospitality or retail, they’re sectors that are really struggling. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to focus on a sector, you could specialise in reaching a particular target audience, for example, families, youth. So I think the more you can specialise, the easier it is when it comes to new business, when it comes to pushing out content and attracting your ideal kind of client, ideal target audience. But with regards to agency positioning, yes, we do help agencies with their positioning, it's not a massive part of our business, if I'm honest. And I think it's because actually, where agencies need help the most is less in working out their positioning, but more in working out how they're going to approach companies, what their message should be around approaching companies, and how they can target them really.Jenny: Okay, so what do you think generally, the agencies could be doing better? When you start working with them and they say, look, we really need a complete business development strategy. Do you sort of say, what are you doing currently? And do you notice that there are things that agencies are perhaps not doing as well as they could be?Lucy: Yeah, I mean, I think definitely being consistent with your new business and marketing efforts. That is something that a lot of agencies really fall short on, and I get it, I understand, you know, I understand why. It's because often they don't have that new business team, and resource and it is a bit, you know, feast or famine. So they suddenly get a client, and they're really busy. And then they can't focus on building that pipeline. But the thing is, is agencies just have to accept the fact they've got to invest in new business, and do it consistently. Because the more you can do it consistently, you can build that pipeline, those agencies that are performing really well now and have managed to kind of cope through this pandemic are those have already beforehand had a quite a consistent marketing effort going on they’re pushing out content and thought leadership. And also, I think one of the things that agencies need to do is you can't just hire a new business person, whether it's in house or consultant, and just expect that to work in silo. I think it needs to be part of a wider agency new business and marketing plan, where you've got somebody senior in the agency out networking, attending events, you know, even if it's virtual ones now, pushing out content on their LinkedIn platforms, creating white papers, and thought leadership stuff, and social media, it's got to all kind of marry together and PR activity as well entering awards, and all of that.Jenny: Wonderful. So when you work with agencies, presumably you cover all of those kind of areas, so that they've got more of a comprehensive plan.Lucy: We do, we do try to help them with all of those areas. I mean, often, the main bit that agencies want to help with is the proactive lead generation activity, because that's the part that always kind of they struggle to fill that resource in house it’s the part that no one likes to do.And so that's the bulk of our businesses doing that. But we work really closely with whether it is with the CEO to yes, we can help across PR. We're building and we have a network of expert consultants that we can pull together. So if we need to have a PR person helping build awareness of the agency amongst kind of key press, we can do that if we need a copywriter to help my content, we can bring that person in. But likewise, we can easily work I've got one client who I've worked with actually since I think since the beginning, I think she was my first client, she's moved to three different agencies. She's a global CMO for the agency that she's at now. And she has built an in house a really strong solid in house marketing team. So I could just kind of slot into that providing the new business support. So it varies according to clients and, you know, depending on each client that we work with.Jenny: What are you finding some of the reactions from CMOs, marketing directors, the people that you're targeting on behalf of the agencies, what are some of the barriers you're listening to and hearing recently, particularly because of COVID?Lucy: I think there's a lot of budget cuts. But yeah, mainly, I mean, yeah, a lot of people are cutting back, especially big companies as a top down freeze on working with external suppliers. But I think as well, a lot of companies, I’m hearing that a lot of companies, they want someone that can really help them pivot, be agile, I think there's more projects going on within the digital space for companies that needed to move more online. But you know, there is a struggle, because teams have been furloughed. So, but the ones that are left are really busy. Budgets are trying to do more with less, you know, less resources in terms of team and also budget. So it is a really big challenge for many companies.Jenny: What do you advise agencies do when they get that pushback to say, look, you know, budgets been cut, or lots of colleagues have been furloughed, I'm picking up the pieces. What's your advice for agencies, when you get that.Lucy: It kind of a little bit depends on who that is. So if it's what I call, like a cold prospect that you're talking to, you can't really push that an awful lot more. It's about being empathetic, working out, standing in touch finding out when their new financial year is when budgets are usually set so you can get back in touch at the right time. And then continuing that conversation by sharing regular pieces of content that would be relevant to them. Obviously, if it's a really warm prospect, a client or someone that you have put forward a proposal to, then I would have an honest conversation to see if there are any other ways that you can work together in maybe a smaller capacity.Jenny: That's great advice. You finding you mentioned earlier on that digital agencies are obviously, you know, very, very busy at the moment, because most clients have time to look at how internally, they have that big digital transformation, how we're going to do more online? Where are you seeing the sort of opportunities for digital agencies to kind of capitalise on that, for example, what I'm thinking, in my mind is, when you're making a cold call, does it make it easier to say that we specialise in, I don't know virtual events, or virtual reality, or some aspect of digital marketing that is on the rise?Lucy: Well, I think you can only specialise in what you offer and what you do. So you know, for me working with a digital agency, it's about spotting opportunities. So I'm working with a digital company at the moment, and they create, they create apps, websites and Internet of Things, IoT products. And for us, we're looking at companies that have received funding. And so we're looking at prop tech companies, ed tech companies, food tech, that have received funding, that are likely to be looking for support to build their product. And, you know, that's where we're spotting opportunities. So, but then again, there are other companies that might be going for digital transformation, or other companies that might be needing more help with content. So it's one thing kind of jumping on any trends, it's really spotting opportunities in terms of where your strengths are, and how you can kind of marry up your strengths with what a company needs.Jenny: That's interesting. So presumably, you do lots of research around the types of companies that are at that point in their, you know, business lifecycle, to have the opportunity that then the agency might be able to provide value for?Lucy: Yeah, I mean, I've got some clients where we subscribe to, you know, there's lots of data services out there. So you can subscribe to different data services where you can track when a company has received funding, or you can just look at news, but yeah, most of the approaches that we do are quite bespoke. So if we want to do maybe a sector push to a wider list, then we do what we call a broadcast campaign where we are leading with insights and sending it out to a bigger audience. And then we can follow up with those who have engaged, who have clicked through, who have opened the email. But otherwise, generally, we might do more one on one emails that where we've actually identified the company, done a bit of research about, you know, whether it's their brand, or their messaging, or their marketing campaigns or their digital platforms that they're on. And then we can approach them with a bit more of an idea. Not going with an idea because that's you that you can get it wrong, but just approach them with a bit more of a bespoke message to say, you know, we've done some thoughts, we've had some thinking around what you're currently doing, we'd love to jump on a call to share those with you.Jenny: And I think that's a really good approach. You mentioned some data services that you happy to share some of the sources that you use?Lucy: Yeah, one resource that we use, it is quite pricey, is called Bowhurst. But it's really good for tracking, they track investment in companies. So they track whether the company has received funding from all types of sources, whether it's VC funding, private equity grants, innovation hubs or incubation hubs, all sorts of different parts of funding. So that's only UK though, and UK companies.Jenny: Very, very smart. What would be your advice if there's an agency leader listening to this thinking, Oh, my gosh, there's so much of that that Lucy's just said that I should be doing and I'm not doing very well or consistently as you said. What would be your advice if you were giving the advice of just focusing on the top three things an agency leader should be thinking about when they're looking at developing their new business strategy?Lucy: Yeah, I think that the, you know, if you're a small agency and you're really struggling for time, then my advice would be to set yourself really small daily goals. Just try and get that kind of consistency and momentum going, whether that's approaching one new company or new prospect a day. The other thing that I would do is to try and be consistent on social media, you know, particularly on LinkedIn, and just get yourself out there really, as much as possible. There's quite a few different networking groups that you can join, whether it's on, on Slack, on Guild, on Mighty Networks, you know, there's different platforms that you can perhaps find a community of some really rich, I don't mean, rich kind of financially, but rich, in you know, helpful. But yeah, you can find some really good conversations happening in some of those groups. And actually, just recently, this week, I forget what day of the week it is Wednesday, yeah, just on Monday, I was in a Slack group and someone, you know, really good company popped up, and they needed a new website to be built, so and I managed to get my hands on that brief. So, you know, I think I would say, just try and get yourself out there as much as possible. And don't just, you know, obviously, what we do with a lot of our agency clients is, is that cold pieces that prospecting and going after potential clients, but don't just rely on that, where there is rich pickings is looking at what I call your warm list, which is anyone that really knows you, whether it's past clients, past team members, potential kind of partners that you've worked with anyone you’ve pitch to before anyone you met, with your LinkedIn connections, you know, I would put all of those down together in a list and work through that first before you start approaching companies from cold because they already know you. So you, you're that one step ahead.Jenny: That's super advice, actually. And, and it just makes so much sense because they are familiar with you. They do know you they are experienced with you. I mean, why do you think people are sometimes reticent to do that?Lucy: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Perhaps just that fear, fear of rejection, maybe deep down, I don't really know. But it was interesting, because I had a call with an agency that I was helping with over in Dubai this week. So I have a eight week coaching programme where I teach agency owners and it's really aimed at small agency owners who can't afford to hire a new business person. But I teach them the kind of step by step basics of new business, and you know, everything from positioning through to managing your database. But as part of that programme, I encourage people to download their list of contacts and to go through all of them. And it's funny, because I had a call with a guy who went through my programme back in May or June time. And he said, he goes, I didn't want to do it, I didn't think anything would come of it. I think that's the thing, they think it's a waste of time. I think I didn't think anything would come of it. But I did go through all of my old contacts, I did get back in touch with people that we pitched in the past. And one guy, you know, big Kuwaiti brand came back into the fold, and we've won them as a project. And it's just like, you know, because companies and brands get approached so much by agencies all the time. And they're more likely to open an email. Part of the hurdle is just getting them to open and read your email. And they're more likely to open your email if they recognise your name. And if you're someone that no.Jenny: And also if you send a video message as well. So I mean, if you double that up, that's gold. So so far, you've shared so many brilliant tips, Lucy, thank you. I was just going to say, do you have any examples of agencies that you've seen, or that you've worked with, perhaps that have just, you know, accelerated their new business efforts, as a result of working with them or anything that they've done that you thought, wow, they nailed it.Lucy: There’s agencies now, I haven't worked with them, but there are a couple of agency owners that I just see and hear about all the time. And obviously, when you're following someone on LinkedIn, you see them more often don't you because you're kind of aware of them. But these are people that not only do I see them all the time on LinkedIn, but I hear them on podcasts, I talk to other people who mentioned them. And I think that's a really good indication if people keep mentioning you, then that works really well. So these are two people that are just really good at building their own personal brand. And I think that's really important as well for agencies as to as an agency leader to build your own personal brand. And these are Dan and Lloyd Knowlton. They're brothers. So I think their company is I think it's called Knowlton or Knowlton agency. So it's spelled like Hill and Knowlton. So K and o w l. t o n. But they do really quirky cool, funny content videos, content creation on LinkedIn. And I think they're growing pretty quickly. And then another guy who I haven't met with actually, but and I keep meaning to reach out to him as a guy called Nathan Lomax, don’t know if you’re familiar with him, from Quickfire Digital?Jenny: I know both of them. Yeah, they're part of the Agencynomics network.Lucy: Yeah. So there's just people that are just really out there and you know, I think the more that you can get yourself known then when you contact somebody, even if they don't know you, your name is still familiar to them. So they'll then kind of maybe take the call or read your email. There are people I would look at follow and emulate, you know, not copy. But yeah, to be inspired by.Jenny: And also let's not forget, I mean, Nathan particularly, I mean, he, he was mentored, I think by Spencer Gallagher from Agencynomics and Spencer’s an advocate of, you know, make, I think it's 50 connections. And I don't even know if that's a week or a day or a month. But you know, just get out there and have conversations because actually conversations lead to, you know, potential partnerships with other agencies, collaborations.Lucy: And also make it your mission to kind of be a, I don't know if they call it a super connector, but someone who wants to help other people. I know someone who's really good at that a lady called Nadine, who runs an agency called Project Management On Demand. And she basically places project managers in agencies and in companies on demand. So it could be for just 15 minutes at a time for a project. You know, it doesn't have to be for a whole day. So it's really flexible. She's a good friend of mine, but she's also someone who will just, if you sit down and chat with her, she were thinking in her mind, who do I know that can help you? Who can I connect you with? So it's less about her kind of trying to make connections and more about how she can help you. And I think the more you help other people, the more it will kind of come back to you as well.Jenny: I think that's generally a great philosophy in business development anyway, yes, I can help. Exactly. That's such a good point. And I'd love to meet Nadine, actually, she sounds really interesting. I was gonna ask you something specific, actually, because it's something that comes up with when I'm training agency account management. And it's the point at which a new business person hands over the project or the piece of new business to the account management team. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on best practice in terms of how that handover should happen.Lucy: Yeah, I mean, as, as Cherry, part of most of our work involves getting an agency onto a pitch list. And usually, once we get that brief, the agency then takes that forward, we're not usually involved so much in the actual pitching, and then the handover. So I don't know if my advice, I think it'd be helpful. But I would just say that, make sure and it's kind of obvious, but make sure that you're the account team is involved in that pitch process. Because you just want to make sure that whatever your business development director, if that's the person pitching, whatever they're promising, is something that is feasible in terms of delivery. So part of that process is just make sure the account team is involved in that pitch process. And again, make sure the account team are trained to do that pitching as well, that they're comfortable doing that pitching. And then if you've got the account team involved in the pitch process, then when they start working with the client, it's more of a kind of natural handover. But I think as well, what might be good practice is to have at the beginning, especially internal monthly status meetings between the business development person and the account manager, just to kind of check in and then the Bizdev Director can go back to the brief and go, are we actually doing what we promised and what we said. So I think those kind of little things would help. But it's not an area that we get involved in so much.Jenny: No, that's a great piece of advice, I think it's really spot on, I understand that you don't get involved. But just curious to know, if the business development person brings in the business and then passes it to the account management team. Do you think it's ever appropriate for the business development team to have any kind of continuation of that relationship? Do you think it's appropriate for them to pop up at any other point in the existing client, when it's actually in motion?Lucy: Depends on the agency setup, really, and how big the agency is, the challenges is that as a business development person, you've always got to be building that pipeline and focusing on bringing new stuff in and if your attention kind of gets diverted elsewhere, and it's easier to then still be sucked into those kind of meetings and client meetings and everything like that. So yeah, it depends on your workload, and how much time you've got. But it's good to have somebody, whether it is the MD of the agency, or the Business Development Director, just being aware of what's going on and just making sure that that client is happy all the time.Jenny: Good, good point. And what are you reading, following? How do you get stimulated because I know that you're very active in the community and you're always kind of attending events and watching and participating and being interviewed. So what are your sources of inspiration to keep you on top of what's happening in the in the marketplace?Lucy: I love reading in fact, I just that's probably what my doorbell rang a second ago and it's probably just Amazon dropping off some more books. Two more that arrived and my son one was one that the famous David Shotts one which is ‘One plus one equals three’. And my son was looking at it yesterday he was like that's not right. The maths on the cover! But yeah, I like reading and I think one thing I've started to do more and more is actually subscribe to email lists of people who are really good at copywriting, and just paying attention to the copy that they use in their emails. And if I see an email that catches my attention, whether it's the subject line, or the copy of the email, just filing it away, so I can go back to it, and when I'm doing an email campaign, and just think about what's working and not working, but yeah, then the main thing is really just reading lots of books. The books that I really recommend, I love at the moment, the two by Donald Miller, which is ‘Marketing Made Simple’ and ‘Building a story brand’. For agency positioning, I think Marketing Made Simple is really good. I mean, he's not just focused on agencies he’s focused on all types of companies, but that your positioning should really be about, you know, who is your audience? What problem do they have? And what's your solution. And again, with his story brand book it's all about there's always a hero of every story. And guess what, you're not the hero, you know, the hero is the person kind of reading that message. And you've got to make sure that your audience is the hero of the story.Jenny: I love that. I love the sound of those two books. Thanks for sharing. So, Donald Miller. And you've also mentioned Dave Trott, who is one yeah, I follow him on, on everywhere, actually, everywhere I can. Any other people that you follow?Lucy: Um, yeah, I mean, I love Ian Harris, and Agency Hackers and all of the stuff that they do. I think his emails are really good as well. And he uses lots of storytelling in his emails. So they're great. And and you've mentioned Agencynomics, as well. Their book is super helpful for agency owners.Jenny: Absolutely. Yeah. It's mentioned a lot actually in the community.Lucy: But in terms of for business development, and new business tips as well. There's a guy in the states called Mark Duval. And his blog is really good, his blog is helpful.Jenny: Yeah, thank you for that. That's brilliant, brilliant tips. Is there any other advice that you would give for either agency owners or agency account management? In terms of new business development? You've mentioned so many tips, this has been so rich with knowledge bombs. But is there anything that we haven't covered that you think would be worth mentioning?Lucy: And actually, it was kind of going back to your question around the business development handing over to the account managers, and the role of account managers. And, again, agencies are often looking for new clients, whereas actually, we should be thinking about how we can grow existing clients. And there's a role there that could be played by either by the account manager, or by the business development person, which is working out, especially if it's a big company, in a global multinational company, who are the other marketing teams that we could get in front of? Making sure that clients are aware of the breadth of services that we offer, because often they're not. And you know, there's so many options if you're already working with a client, and there's so many opportunities to grow that and I think a lot of agencies are missing that trick. And agencies need to have that kind of internal process, whether it's like weekly or monthly status meetings as a team to work out how they're going to grow their existing clients.Jenny: You're speaking my language here, because my account accelerator programme is all about that. And I've been working with agency account managers for years around this very point, because I mean, it's so much cheaper to develop your existing accounts.Lucy: Definitely. And we always say that when we're setting KPIs and goals with agencies and helping them establish what their financial objectives should be for the year, we always say that the majority of new business or the majority of business growth should come from existing clients, not from like the from cold channel. And yeah, that agency accelerator programme sounds brilliant, because I think a lot, especially a lot of account managers, they don't, you know they are quite hesitant and nervous about approaching existing clients, you know, to get referred on within their company, and also ask for referrals, external referrals, as well ask if there's anyone that they know that they could recommend you to.Jenny: Absolutely. And I agree, I mean, most account managers that I work with, you know, they don't want to come across as too salesy. They don't want to be pushy. But there are ways that you can do it. So you don't end up feeling like achy and pushy and, and that's the revelation that I see with my account accelerator programme is, they think, well, actually, I've got a client development plan now, which feels totally doable. So I absolutely agree. There was also a survey done by Agencynomics, actually was the global survey, and the UK survey matched it. It was among agency owners, and 30% of referrals come from existing clients that moved somewhere else, or that refer you to someone else, your existing clients. So you're absolutely spot on the money there. Lucy, this has been absolutely brilliant. I've written down loads of notes. I think you've shared some fantastic tips, I think. Thank you. Thanks so much. Yeah. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that I perhaps should have done?Lucy: I don't think so. Really, I think it's just about being, being consistent and also being natural as well. I think that's the thing is we sometimes lose sight of stuff that we think, you know, new business development is about sales. And it's not, it's about building relationships, because brands want to work with you because they like you, and because they trust you and because they think you're going to do a great job for them. And not because you kind of pressurise them into working with you. So it's yeah, just being yourself, being clear on who you can help and how you can help them and being consistent with you know, pushing that message out there all the time.Jenny: That's a lovely note to finish on. Thank you so much.Lucy: Thank you, thanks, Jenny.Jenny: I hope you enjoyed that episode and come away with lots of ideas and tips to generate more leads and more prospecting for your business. I also want to let you know if you're an agency account director listening to this and you'd like to work with me for three months, I have been running my account accelerator programme since 2016. And it's all about developing and growing existing business. So if currently, you don't have a systematic approach to client growth, and you are responsible for the agency forecast, and you'd like a non salesy, non pushy way of growing your existing business, then please get in touch and I can give you more details about the programme. My email address is Jenny@account managementskills.com or alternatively, please connect with me on LinkedIn at Jenny Plant. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Until the next time. Bye.
