What's the metaverse? How is it different to Web 3? What do agencies need to pay attention to?I chat to agency owner Ben Fryer from Diverse Interactive who has been helping his clients create virtual experiences for years. He gives us his take on the Metaverse and the opportunities for agencies of all disciplines.Transcript:Jenny 00:03Well, today I've managed to persuade the fantastic Ben Fryer to come on the show. He is the co founder of Diverse Interactive an independent experience agency specialising in virtual reality and augmented reality. So welcome, Ben. Do you want to start by just giving us a few minutes on your background and how you help your clients at Diverse? Ben 01:15Sure. So we've been an agency now for seven years, and we specialise not only in sort of creating great immersive content, so a lot of AR and VR, but we always sort of build that on really sound technology and of a lot of best software development. And now really, I'm very happy to say this, we really specialise in the metaverse and everything around that sort of feels like what we've been doing for the last seven years. And now it's sort of out and about we're just helping brands and businesses utilise that space. Jenny 01:46This is one of the reasons I wanted to invite you on Ben, because I know that you've been working in this space for so long and you're ahead of the curve in terms of what's happening. But for many people, the metaverse has become a bit of a buzzword so would you mind sort of explaining how do you define the metaverse? Ben 02:05Sure. Okay. So this is a sort of challenge, I think because, opening the metaverse hasn't got a kind of set definition at the moment. So I think I can give you my definition and hopefully that'll help and it probably does come with that footnote - this is technology, so it's probably out of date by the time you hear it! But I guess my view on this is, I like to see the metaverse as you can imagine it as the kind of universe of all persistent augmented reality and virtual reality experiences. So sort of put that another way, any kind of virtual reality that you can consume, from some kind of device, not necessarily a VR headset, but one of these realities that you can kind of enter, consume and leave, but that reality is still there. So you can kind of come and go from that. And sort of another way to put that in, if you're sort of familiar with AR and VR, you might have heard of the term XR, which sort of encompasses those. So again, it's almost like this sort of convergence of XR and internet that really come in together to kind of provide the metaverse. Jenny 03:15Is the metaverse, would you say that it's here now, or is it coming? Or what stage do you think we are? Ben 03:22So again, another very, very common question. I'd like to describe this, and an analogy I often use is, now if I was to ask you something like, when did the first smartphone exist? That's a really hard question to answer. It's a set of technologies that sort of came together to give you a sort of mobile phone device. And that increasingly got more and more connected and capable. And it became a smartphone. And I think the metaverse is coming together a similar sort of way. This is really a lot of technologies coming together, mainly around the internet, although I do say that it's not the internet. I've heard that one as well. But the internet's really infrastructure. So these technologies are kind of coming together. And they're allowing us to have increasingly more connected and realistic virtual realities that we can kind of enter to an exit and you're seeing that in your homes now. People are aware of sort of games Roblox, Minecraft, the sort of realities that we're starting to consume are just becoming more and more a part of our life. Jenny 04:32Would you say that the gamers are kind of ahead of the curve in terms of already having experienced more of a virtual world? Ben 04:39I guess, maybe that sort of generation I guess, yes there are people who probably more used to these types of experiences, but I think it's just sort of changed. You know, we've been doing a lot of AR and VR for businesses enterprise for a long time. And I like to include it already. It's all just the more and more we're adopting these kind of technologies. I think VR, for example, this year for zoom calls and everything like that. And now we're starting to use sort of VR and it's just becoming part of our lives. So I really think of it that way. Jenny 05:18One of the things recently, I had on someone on the show talking about web3 and I did a talk recently about the future of account management and the evolution towards web3 and for account managers to keep their eye on the future and what's happening in the next 10 years. But for you as an expert, I'd love to ask you specifically, how do you see web3 and the metaverse? Are they linked? Are they different? Are they the same? Can you put any kind of clarity around the similarities or differences or are they just one thing? Ben 05:54That's another really good question. So again, this can be an area that's a little bit sort of confusing at the moment. So web3, I think if you sort of go back to my previous answer, the internet, it's helping give us this metaverse. We might run Metaverse on some other network of computers in the future. But web3 for me is really part of the internet. So it's not sort of necessary for the metaverse.
We can create you a connected virtual reality experience that you can go and consume without web3, but what web3 is really providing is a very useful technology for the metaverse, so this sort of blockchain movement, this decentralisation and really the power there at the moment within, I'll call them smart contracts rather than NFTs, I find that a more use useful term really, but it's providing very useful services. So when you're creating these virtual worlds, or virtual realities, if you want to have virtual products or goods or know who owns what, in these large sort of realities, this is kind of sort of enabling it. And in a way, they're almost sort of intertwined. They're kind of driving each other at the moment. So I think that's where the real connection comes because they're both evolving at the same time, and they're both sort of powering each other in a way.
Jenny 07:20There seems to be a huge amount of excitement about web3. And I think there's a lot of acknowledgment that we're at the very early stages. Like you said, the buzzword of NFTs and there's this kind of polarising debate about, what's an NFT? It's a waste of time, it's nothing. But actually what you've just said, it's the smart contract that sits underneath. Ben 07:42I almost wish they hadn't called it NFT. So what's a non fungible token? Really, the power's this ability to write an application into the blockchain. And you can create any kind of contract. People are still sort of coming up with new ways to use that. But anything around any kind of content, landownership, tickets, all sorts uou can do with that space at the moment. But it's all really useful stuff for the metaverse. Jenny 08:10I think it's quite cool that the art or the creative world have kind of taken the initiative with it. And they're at the forefront. I love to see that they are now finally getting reimbursed for their creativity in their art which is quite exciting. How do you think that the metaverse is going to change how we currently live, work, play, communicate by, things like do everything like, what do you see as as changing? Ben 08:41Okay, so again, another really good question. And I think, if you probably think about something like the internet, the early days of the internet, that as a technology has changed so much over the years. And I really put the metaverse kind of almost level with that in the way that I think is going to impact this, we're already sort of starting to see it coming into play. We mentioned games earlier, but VR headsets are coming into the home. But yes, it's a huge kind of space like the internet. But a whole bunch of technologies. People often forget things- I see augmented reality being part of the metaverse, so people like Nian Tick they're big players at the moment. They're sort of branded kind of the real world Metaverse, which I really like. So it's not just about going and getting lost in a virtual reality headset. There's technologies coming like smart glasses, things like that, that are really going to bring the metaverse to us, as convenient as our kind of smartphones and those are still sort of virtual realities, when we're out and about consuming the metaverse. So there's just so many applications at the moment to kind of get involved and use this technology. Jenny 10:11So you think that, because you're right, I did recently buy the Oculus finally- is it Quest 2? Jenny 10:18I've just been absolutely blown away. Absolutely trying to get all of my family and friends to have a look -this is incredible. I know you've experienced this way, way before I ever did. But what you're saying is, we're not in the future, you don't see the fact that we're going to be wearing these big clunky glasses, they're going to be smart glasses. So presumably, a lot kind of smaller, thinner? Ben 10:19Yes. Ben 10:42Yes it's a case of different glasses for different applications I guess. But I think outside of that you don't necessarily need, people might argue this, but I don't feel that you have to have a virtual reality headset to consume a virtual reality. A lot of the games that you can sit on your couch at home, you can still have a virtual experience, go and attend a virtual concert and in one of these completely alternate games and have a really good kind of experience. So there's lots of ways to consume the metaverse, it's not really limited, I've got to have a Quest headset. But ultimately, the Quest is really (doing Facebook a favour), but it is a really good device. And, anyone I'd highly recommend that. I think it really is impactful, maybe something like the iPod or iPhone was. It's really a VR headset that I feel is ready at the moment, it's very easy to use, as you say, you can kind of put it on, you've got great things like the pass free, that you don't lose that connection from the world completely. I've had to help so many people over the last seven years, try to put a headset on and waving their hands around. So it's great, great stuff, and really, just really early days as well, in terms of this technology. Jenny 12:04I mean, I have to give a shout out to Spencer Gallagher, who kind of got a group of agency leaders together and said, Listen, buy a headset, let's do this. And let's just test it out. And we're going to throw a party in the metaverse it was so hilarious and so much fun. And I learned so much through doing. Would you say that that's the only way to kind of to get involved, is to actually embrace it and just test it as you go? Ben 12:32Yes, I think, that's like any technology that, there is a lot of sort of people at the moment, you get the really sort of mixed reviews - should we be doing the metaverse? Is it going to take over our lives? Or is it ready? But I think really it's just get involved and give it a go. Because then you sort of start understanding this technology. And there are applications where it's ready, absolutely. Any kind of VR at the moment for sort of business enterprise is proven, we're doing so much at the moment with businesses. So utilising these technologies. Jenny 13:09So talking about businesses, I'm really interested to see, particularly which companies you think or if you've seen are the early adopters in this space, and how long do you think it'll be before others will follow? Ben 13:22So I guess we have to start the biggie. So, Facebook rebranding Meta, I think, like them or not, Facebook is still probably, I think they're in the top 10 largest businesses in the world right now. They've gone out, they've rebranded, they're really trying to claim this space. And I think what we're seeing now is there's other people's just sort of starting to show their cards and Microsoft is starting to speak about it quite a lot. Yahoo's been out there. So there's those kind of people doing that. But then you've got the other side, you've got the kind of content creators or content enablers. So, Epic Games Unreal, they're providing the tools to help us build the metaverse. So you've got people like that. And then you've got brands now just taking those first steps. Some of them are doing well. Some of them not so great. It's very common in these new spaces. Samsung did an event in Decentraland recently, and Samsung if you need some help, I'm willing to help! It was alright. But hats off, they went out and they using it, and I really think that's a key thing at the moment. I see a lot of people, again it comes back to web3 thing.
Getting involved with the metaverse for me is really creating sort of valuable, immersive sort of virtual reality type experiences. Going and minting an NFT doesn't quite cut it. So Samsung has kind of gone all out, they've got into one of these virtual realities and created a kind of virtual space. So it's really interesting to see brands starting to use it. And I think probably one to watch at the moment, another one of these sort of big virtual realities people have heard of it there's one called the Sandbox. I think Adidas are probably one to watch at the moment, they've just bought a big chunk of land in the Sandbox. So I'd love to see what they're doing with that. They've sort of had it a while. So hopefully creating some really good content.
Jenny 15:32So gosh, so many questions have come up. First of all, just explain to me, what did Samsung do? And how did you get to find out about it? How are you plugged in to know that they're doing something? Or are you just constantly watching this space and immersed in it? Ben 15:47So I'm quite involved all over this place, and I actually own land in some of these platforms, so I've got a bit of an interest in them anyway. Samsung, they were attending CES so they did a sort of brand type activation. But again, it was a lot more good PR in the metaverse. I think they could have done a lot more to kind of build a better experience. We saw a lot of this, when we were sort of first doing VR brands, just trying it out. I do really want to encourage brands to do these things properly. And you'll get a really good experience out of them. Jenny 16:34And what would you say? You could have done this and it would have been so much better? What would the this be? Ben 16:42They put the content, created this experience, but the experience was quite weak. There's a lot of people just sort of walking around and most of the chat was people were trying to work out what they were trying to do and getting frustrated with it. So it was theatre over kind of substance. And I think just to think that experience through. And like all of these things, it's all about content creation. We always do that diversity, sort of content creation and user experience lead reviews. Those two things, get your content right and get your user experience good. And then the tech sort of sits under that really, Jenny 17:22And you are a good benchmark for knowing what 'good' is, because you've been immersed in it. And the thing about you having land? Did you buy the land? I suppose I'm just really curious, when you're buying this virtual land are the prices going up? Going down? Are you're watching a market? Is there a limit? Where do you buy the land? Can you just sort of enlighten me a bit? Ben 17:47So it's a really interesting space. So I've dabbled a little bit with the crypto but that for me is just gambling. But the land's really interesting as it's one of these applications I mentioned earlier, where I see a value in. It comes back to this smart contract again, and this ownership. So these platforms, they're not going away, these are big platforms, they're established. They're using the blockchain kind of below their platform. So that's always going to exist in the blockchain, so that's land, even those contracts have been created, they're not going away, they're there for good. And then the experience that's been built on top, these virtual realities, they're just going to get increasingly better. I've heard Centraland getting some sort of bad feedback and people saying the graphics are a bit out of date, but they're doing some really clever stuff, they're focused on web technology, they've got some limitations there. Bu it's very accessible and they're very much focusing on kind of decentralised sort of model, access for everyone, open platform, and the web's where that comes so that they've made that decision. This technology just gets better and better. So that experience is only going to get more valuable, it's kind of sort of separate from the blockchain that sits below. So I see that as an investment. And again, I don't want to give investment advice, completely wrong, but I see the value there. And again, for me, it's supporting these platforms. But also, there's so much from doing that. Once you own that land, you can build your own content, that gives you the right to put your own content on that land. So, again, if you're sort of a brand or business wanting to get involved you can own that land. And then again, it's really down to the content creation skills. And looking for what you put on that land. You've got quite sort of open platforms in terms of what you can deliver, very much like if you created a website it's a similar thing, you're just creating experiences within virtual realities rather than a kind of flat webpage. Jenny 20:08Oh, my goodness, I never thought of it like this. So basically, would you draw parallels with buying your website domain years ago, when you've got your domain, then you can use that space on the web? Ben 20:20Yes that's a thing as well. So there are people using Blockchain an alternative to, people familiar with the term kind of DNS, but a way of sort of accessing a computer by name. So there's ways around that or just these lands. But yes I really like it when it's combined with the sort of virtual realities, because that's exactly it really. It's allowing you to have ownership and create virtual goods within these realities. And that's where I really do see the value. I am mixed with a sort of NFT digital art space, where how much value is there, it's hard to tell. But as soon as you combine that into one of these platforms, I feel the value is a lot more prepared, you're using this context within this world, there's a lot of people in that world, if you're buying the avatar or the house, or whatever it is, it's giving you things within that world. And that world's almost protecting the value a bit more than, here's an image that I've written to the blockchain, what's that going to be worth, in the next five years? Jenny 21:35So are you seeing a trend with companies, brands, just going in and purchasing land and just holding it and thinking, right, we're going to keep that spot, but we don't quite know what we're going to do with it? Ben 21:46That is happening.
The other interesting thing here is you can not only buy land, but you can rent land. So, you don't necessarily have to go buy some land, you can, these can be temporary kind of things that you could create a content experience on that piece of land for a temporary period. Yes like you say, there's people who are investing to, almost utilise that land for other people. But equally, there are platforms right now, where it's not a big spend, compared to what brands are spending on events, physical events, things like that.
Jenny 22:25So that's such a good point, actually. So I'm interested because we're in the agency space, and we are usually leading our marketing clients with what they're going to do with their brands, how they're going to promote themselves? How do you think marketing products and services will change in the metaverse? Big questions for you today. Ben 22:50So, we started touching on it there, we're getting these virtual realities that we can kind of exist in, our brands can exist in, businesses can exist in and that for sort of agencies, the content creation alone, when creating a virtual world is huge. But not only that,
I think every agency right now, whatever space or niche you're in, there's opportunities here, to kind of help brands. If you're a branding agency, how they're going to exist? I was speaking to a personal branding agency the other day, and it is sort of like, when you're you in all these different virtual realities, are you the same person? And you have sort of complete freedom in these realities as well, which I find really interesting. You're not sort of constrained. Your product can be right there in front of someone, and you're not only controlling the way that product looks, behaves, but also the environment around it, and how that person experiences your brand, a very kind of immersive sort of experience.
Jenny 24:02For brands, going back to a couple of steps, what you talked about the blockchain and the fact that it's decentralised, do brands to a certain extent have to give up their kind of ownership of the brand and put it out there to their customers to kind of interpret what their brand means? Ben 24:22That's another really interesting question. It's very hard for the decentralisation. I'm sort of a fan of it. And I think there's values there. But it's almost getting political in terms of it's interesting, when you decentralise everything, we think about things go back in the past, things like peer to peer file sharing or the dark web, it's hard. I sort of feel like the centralization is sort of required at a level. I think there's a movement. I think what's valuable in these is we are creating these kind of shared experiences. So I love the sort of community element around it at the moment and as a brand you're thinking about how you exist in these different virtual realities -a Fortnite might be different from a Roadblox to the type of audience and the community within that. So, I think it's a thing about how you present yourself, but I don't want to get the whole sort of decentralised movement's an interesting one, I think it's one where we just have to watch how far can we take that sort of businesses? Jenny 25:43What role do you see agencies playing in the future to help the clients navigate the metaverse? You say there's opportunities abounding at the moment? What kind of opportunities do you see for them? Ben 27:22Okay it's almost sort of as impactful as social. You think about something like social. I was actually chatting to an agency owner earlier who's got a brand agency. And it was sort of - How do I use the metaverse? I don't understand it. It's a bit like asking how do you use social? There's all these platforms, there's all these ways into it. And as an agency, you're really looking for how can I bring that to my sort of niche or my client? What's the application, is a virtual reality, is one of these virtual worlds right for my brand? Can I bring them to them? So there's that kind of level where we're trying to find these ways that we can help our clients use this space. And again, what's really interesting is, I think everyone I spoken to recently who's an agency owner, we just have these really great chats because everyone's sort of got their own niche content creation, branding software, everyone's got their little niche. And as they start talking you start coming up with these ideas of how you could utilise the metaverse. So it's really exciting for me this, again, I think it just sort of summarises sort of what a kind of huge space it is. So I guess it's sort of that element of it. But the other element I think for agencies as well,
it's not only changing now what our clients are doing, it's going to change what we're doing as well. It's going to change our own businesses. You mentioned earlier having a Metaverse meet up with other agency owners. Let's get the clients doing that. We can go and show them these spaces, share those experiences with them, and then that will really help them adopt the common technology and understand how it can be used.
Jenny 29:22I mean, maybe this is an obvious question, but do you think that agencies really need to keep an eye on on how much this is changing? Because agencies typically want to be ahead of the game. But clients are just as interested in this space, and they're already kind of testing things. And I suppose my other question is, do you think that it works particularly well, where a brand already has a very kind of tight community of customers who are really interested in following them? Ben 29:55I think it's like any space, there's going to be brands that might not suit. If we were sort of using Blockchain in the equation, I don't really like to use blockchain because I can deliver you a virtual reality experience or augmented reality experience with no blockchain involved. But something like environmental impact, that is a barrier at the moment to some brands as an example, sort of getting involved. But I think that the questionnaire about, it feels like sometimes almost like there's this sort of pressure with technology to kind of- Oh we're falling behind. I've been doing this for 30 years. That's always there. And my advice to anyone is really focus on the applications of the technology, not necessarily trying to understand it as people like me worry about that. But it's really, what can this technology do? Is it ready for me? Is it ready for my clients? And then have a chat with an expert and find those applications and then bring them to your clients, but don't feel behind, there's plenty of time. I think this is a long game this one. Jenny 31:11Right, I think that's really good advice. I've got a random question for you. Which agencies do you think should be paying more attention to this specifically? I'm thinking particularly performance marketing agencies, for example, who have paid search, paid social and it's all about the social media platforms and Google. Have you got any thoughts on how that's going to evolve? Ben 31:38So definitely you need to keep an eye on it. You know how fast things like, this is really social again, it's sort of things like TikTok, these technologies come in fast and change quickly. And I think the metaverse, they do need to keep an eye on that in terms of the sort of realities, virtual realities, or augmented reality being created as a sort of platform that you can exist in, or your customers can exist in. So I think it's sort of keeping an eye on those spaces or, and there's going to be places where there's a sort of obvious fit for a brand. I think, again, these are quite tailored because these platforms have been creating, there's something like a game for example, that's going to fit a certain kind of set of users. Something like perhaps Facebook Horizons it's quite an open platform, that's going to suit another type of user. So it's really sort of seeing where you think your customers might live in these realities and finding your way really. Jenny 32:54Good advice as well. So can you share some examples of maybe the clients that you've been helping to give this a real kind of looking at specific case studies, and examples, real tangible examples? Because I suppose everyone's at a different point in the adoption curve, aren't they with this? Ben 33:14So we've done a lot of projects. And I think this has come about this longer game thing. The last seven years, we're building AR and VR experiences. And I think every AR and VR experience we learn something new to pass on. But I really like the applications where it's bringing value to a business. Everyone has to do their kind of brand app, PR type projects. But I'm a really big fan of the ones where we can really make a difference for these kinds of technologies to be utilised in the metaverse. I think a recent one that I really loved was we worked with Linde Group a logistics company over a two year timeframe. We built this kind of mobile virtual reality training system. And we replaced what was a traditional day off the road for the drivers, very expensive one location in the country where they have to go and do a very traditional learning to an immersive driving experience that tours the country, goes to the drivers, now take some less than 40 minutes to go through it. The driver trainer is really happy because it's giving them an understanding of driver behaviour that they just have never had before, because we're using things like eye tracking technology in VR headsets, so they have this ability to play back the experience with the driver, and they can see where they were looking and have really sort of valuable conversation. So it's applications like that, where I just love that we can get involved and the metaverse is just allowing us to provide more and more of these types of experiences more easily now as the technology comes in. We've come back to the Quest headset, £300 headset, that sort of price. Now that everyone can get involved in. We're working very closely with USP College at the moment, we've got Immersive training centre that we've built with them. And we're sort of changing education, they're bringing these technologies in how people can teach and experience learning through VR. Jenny 35:35I love this. I mean, presumably, it's being accelerated by the fact that we've just spent the last two and a half years in a global pandemic, where lots of people have been housebound, and homebound. And there isn't the luxury or there hasn't been the luxury of sending all your drivers for example, to a centre somewhere, they're all driving from different parts of the country, to then have a 'one day' and presumably they have to pay the costs of staying overnight, blah, blah, blah. So coming up with that immersive technology where you can do it all, it takes 40 minutes, and you can do it from your own home. Ben 36:16There's just kind of no brainer applications now for brands, not in training, just brand experiences, for get back into the sort of virtual goods and the virtual services, where you've not only got your own goods, presenting them, but actually, there's a lot of space now for brands to create their own virtual goods. We touched on it earlier, sort of fashion. So there's just so much people can do right now, today. But equally, we've still got this long journey. So this is just going to come more and more part of our lives. Jenny 37:42I was just thinking, because I'm actually selfishly thinking about my own training business and other training providers that are seeing that there may be an opportunity to have more of an immersive training environment. And we're now coming out of being locked down and everything and coming back into face to face training. But like you said, with your example of your client company, where they've must have slashed their training budget, on on the one hand with external costs of sending people somewhere and all the cost of their time, but just having this virtual training experience. So I was just wondering about training as the natural gateway for many companies to experiment a little bit with virtual experiences. Ben 38:31Yes it's certainly an area, there's no brainer applications, I think for any business we've been training. But I think it goes a lot broader than that. We do a lot of training work, but sales applications is big for us. We're building a project at the moment, it's like a sort of virtual sales tool. So it was actually born out of a business who will go out of their pharma company will go out and sort of bring devices to the customer and demo the device and sort of lock down really gave them a zoom call, and then they've just been left with their sales pitch is, here's loads of documents that we've pulled together and videos, and they're trying to sell a product and they got loads of challenges, these are sort of expensive bits of equipment, and questions like, how does it fit in my lab, things like that? And they've resorted to going through PDF manuals, showing them the dimensions on the screen. So we've helped them and this is a project that's in production at the moment, but we've built this completely virtual lab experience that runs in a web browser on any device, so their sales reps can either screenshare that or take that to a customer. They can explore the lab, go into products and then view the products in 3D within the browser, look around the product, demo the product, really get into the product, show them how the door opens, things like that. And then on top of that, we built in a feature using augmented reality so they can demo these products. And the customer can literally scan a QR code on the sales rep's screen and then view the product life size with no app download in the room sat right next to them. So sales applications are really big for us. And then, again, moving more into the Metaverse in fully immersive experiences, any brand activation, or touch from events, being able to have the, call it hybrid at the moment, be able to have a virtual experience as well, is a really good space, or just anywhere where you want to show someone a product and one of these sort of virtual realities. Jenny 40:57I saw that you posted on LinkedIn a while ago that you were going to this Metaverse event that I think it was a concert? Is that the norm now that people are going to these virtual events? Ben 41:14It's just one of these things, they're just becoming better and better. And I think that was a Decentraland event, the Metaverse Festival. It blew me away that experience. They'd done a really good job on the content creation. I think, again, what we were saying earlier in the user experience and the content creation, for the platform's kind of capabilities was really, really good. And there's just a couple of moments in that, it wasn't just about the kind of content experience, it was this kind of connection, it sounds weird, but even though you're on your own, you can sort of feel these people around you having that shared experience. You've got the live music, and you can see the chat and everyone was sort of feeling it, this kind of sort of moment, like you'd have at a real festival. It's not going to replace real festivals, I think it's a different class of experience, but it's certainly a really valuable experiences as a brand or business you can get involved with and give your customers a really good experience. Jenny 42:21Wow, I think it's fantastic. I must say that when we did that virtual experience ourselves, Andrew Dolby popped up right next to me, and I could hear his voice. And it felt, I know that I'm new to the space, but for example, Ben, because I was really interested in going to that event, but at the time I didn't have my Oculus headset, if I'd have had the Oculus headset would I have been able to? Ben 42:46Actually interesting because Decentraland doesn't require any headsets. And this is one of the ones that runs actually within a web browser. So again, like I said earlier, I don't really say that you have to have a VR headset to consume the metaverse, really. You don't have to put a headset on to consume one of these virtual realities, but you can and that gives you a more immersive experience. And there's applications there where you want to use a headset, but equally, there's so much you can do especially in the augmented reality space. I really love that space, because you take a lot of that away, just having these enhancing your reality. I was speaking to someone about E commerce in the metaverse and the future of that. And another very common question there is, is the metaverse going to replace shopping anytime? So this kind of thing. And now for me it's the same, it's just going to enhance it. When you've got your AR glasses and you're out and about in the shops, you're enhancing that shopping experience. We're still going to want to go experience physical goods, but we can actually make that experience better by bringing AR technologies in, you can have the virtual as well. But I think it's hand in hand, you can have both really. Neither are going to replace one of the things. Jenny 44:16I see. So it's going to enhance our real life experience. But also you can go into the virtual world, and that's going to be more. Ben 44:22That's it, yes. Jenny 44:26Great. How do you see the agencies changing in the next 10 years? Do you see that there are going to be more people like you popping up? Who obviously haven't been doing this for as long but are you seeing that there's an interest from agencies in terms of getting involved and leading their clients in this area? And don't worry, no one's got a crystal ball, but I'm just interested in your thoughts. Ben 45:15We've got to look at the metaverse is just going to come increasingly more and more a part of our lives and our customers lives and our employees lives. So the change is really just going to be us adopting this technology, more and more and working with it. So it's not just for our customers, or our clients is also for us, and it's going to change the way we're doing things. So I think it's really thinking about yourself in these virtual realities. You're a brand, just as much as your clients. So if you want to present your agency within one of these virtual realities, how you're going to do that? You're going to buy a virtual office, or a virtual demo room for your clients to come and attend. So there's all sorts of ways I think you can dream up all sorts of ways I think over the next 10 years, as technology gets better, that you could get involved as an agency. Jenny 46:17I think it was good advice actually getting agencies to experiment now and early, so that they're already doing it for themselves and the marketing of their agencies for themselves now. And as the technology evolves, as you say, you're just becoming more proficient with it. What advice would you give to anyone listening who feels that they might be falling behind? Like, I don't even understand what Ben's talking about? I haven't been on Fortnite. I don't know what Decentraland is. NFTs, God knows where to start. Any advice for anyone listening? Ben 46:52So straight off, don't don't feel that way. Again, it's the pressure of the ever moving technology. I think, its focus on what these things can do. And, I think it's been a bit of a theme, just get involved, give these things a go, don't push it away because you don't understand it. Go and buy Quest, have a go, get involved, and I think you'll find these areas where actually where. Oh, yes, that might be a fit there. I love having these conversations with people. If you find that application and think well actually this could be something I could use, have have a chat with an expert and see if it's something we can help with. Jenny 47:41Amazing. And to that point then, how can people get hold of you? And who are the people that you want to hear from? Ben 47:49We work with such a broad range of clients at Diverse, but we're not tied to any real sector. So anyone wanting to get involved with the metaverse, we're here to help. And that's agencies or end clients. And really, if you want to get in contact, there's LinkedIn, that's probably my go to. So connect with me on LinkedIn. And then from there, if we want to go and perhaps meet up in the metaverse, I accept most kind of virtual reality platforms that we can go and experience together. Jenny 48:28What a great idea. And we'll make sure that we put that in the show notes, your LinkedIn. And actually, I think everyone listening, there's this new feature on LinkedIn where you can just click a bell, so that any content that you put out, because I know you've been putting a lot of thought leadership pieces, and really, really interesting educational pieces, I would recommend anyone to follow Ben because you really are the forefront and you manage to make everything sound more simple than it actually is, I imagine. Ben 48:58Yes, click my bell on LinkedIn. Jenny 49:01Click your bell. Lovely. Well, Ben, listen, is there any question that I haven't asked you or any aspect of the metaverse that I haven't covered that you think would be interesting to the agency community audience? Ben 49:17Why is that such a hard question? Jenny 49:36From my perspective, I love people to come away with ideas and you've already dropped so many examples of platform names and tools and ideas. And for me, it's making sure that everyone who's listening to this has a better understanding of what the metaverse is. So I'm just curious if there's anything that we haven't touched upon, that you think we be useful? Ben 50:10I think the thing about just giving it a go seems to be a sort of theme, but we just answered that one. Jenny 50:18Yes, that's fine. No, that's cool. Brilliant. Well, listen, Ben, thank you so much for taking the time to talk. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I love what you're putting out on LinkedIn. I love following you and learning myself. So thank you for being at the forefront of what's changing. I really appreciate. Ben 50:36It's been really good.
